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Detroit
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Fri, April 22, 2005 - 9:00 PMI had not heard of them before. Reading their info, they seem to be a small group with more of a focus on the traditional Christian part of Unitarianism. It sounds like a couple of guys and a website, but who knows? -
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sat, April 23, 2005 - 12:16 AMAnd the problem with a focus on the christian heritage of Unitarianism is??
Like it or not, Unitarianism and Universalism are prostestant denominations... -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, April 24, 2005 - 8:40 PMUnitarian Universalism is one denomination. Depending on what you think "protestant" means we may or may not fit the bill, regardless of what we once were. The dictionary I looked in said 'protestant' means;
1) A member of a Western Christian church whose faith and practice are founded on the principles of the Reformation, especially in the acceptance of the Bible as the sole source of revelation, in justification by faith alone, and in the universal priesthood of all the believers.
2) A member of a Western Christian church adhering to the theologies of Luther, Calvin, or Zwingli.
Both of these contradict our principles.
ALTHOUGH...
there's nothing wrong with a UU group having a christian focus, so long as they don't make claims such as "the Bible as the sole source of revelation" or "justification by faith alone" and still claim to be UU's. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 3:01 AMI made the same arguement in my 8th grade Social Studies class...and I was wrong. We cannot and should not be so quick to walk away from our history. Unitarianism and Universalism both were responses to specific issues in traditional Christianity (the Trinity and Universal Salvation) and were seperate denominations until 1960.
The book American Universalism (www.uua.org/skinner/6094.html) is a good start on some basic history for Universalism in the US...not sure about Unitarianism.
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 8:32 AMUnitarianism finds it's roots mostly in Transylvania/Eastern Europe... look here for more info about UU origins www.uua.org/info/origins.html -
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 9:01 AMBr. Katana is also (pretty much) correct... Unitarianism and Universalism merged in 1961... while it is true that we are now a pluralist faith, embracing many traditions and faith perspectives, to try and simply amputate the liberal christian foundation that our church grew from is wrong... one does not chop off roots because one thinks the flower is prettier...
I recently attended District Assembly for the Central Midwest district, and our keynote speaker was Rosemary Bray. She spoke at length at saturday mornings service about not tearing down or seeking to sweep under the rug, our christian heritage. She pointed out tthat while almost all other faiths were protected by us, that for some reason, Christianity is the one faith UU's seem to feel they have full right to not only disregard and discredit, but to openly mock and make fun of. I have seen this myself, and as a UU christian, it sometimes makes me uncomfortable in my own church. As Rosemary pointed out, Jesus outlined two laws... Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as your brother... our neighbors are not simply those in our churches, or those who think like we do... they are also the born agains who think you are damned to hell, the people protesting in front of Planned Parenthood, the fundamentalists who won't let your children play with theirs because they are not "saved"... these too are our neighbors... as are all human beings... -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 10:18 AMGood points, Drew. I've been guilty of that myself but am trying to improve and realize what about Chrisitianity is still important to me. I guess it's all part of the process from leaving Christianity and going to UU.
I've tried explaining to people (namely my family) that the roots of UU come from Christianity and Judaism and that you can find many of the teachings of both in our church, which I like. I also like teachings from other sources outside of the bible. While it has several wonderful stories and teachings, I feel like there is so much more and that I should be exploring. My answer is not usually accepted or understood by them, but then again, that is one reason why I am a UU. -
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 10:34 AMI absolutely agree with you Jairy, and I would never put forth that the bible is the sole or superior source of religious and ethical guidance or thought. But too often, UU's wish to shove aside anything bearing any resemblance to christianity... I understand that many of these people come into our congregations very hurt by christianity, and as such suffer from what I often call "cross-cringe"... but I think this leads to throwing the proverbial baby out with bathwater. I agree that fundamentalist and other narrow interpretations of christianity have done far more harm than good... but these are often (to quote the UUCF website) "religions about Jesus, not religions OF Jesus". Seperating the message from 1500 yrs or so of dogmatic repression is difficult... I struggled with it for some time, actually spent the larger part of my spiritual seeking intentionally steering clear of monotheism, and christianity in general, but eventually, the message and the character of Jesus sought ME out. Even now, though I clearly feel my faith and theology, I have a hard time expressing it in verbal or written form.
Again, I don't think everyone should believe as I do, or that UU's need to embrace christianity as a general theology... but we do need to know and understand our history and foundation as a church, and to understand that the "free and responsible search for truth and meaning" is a very individual process, and that some of us do find that in our historic christian tradition. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 6:58 PMI totally agree with continuing to accept and get value from the Christian part of our heritage. I, too, continue to identify as a Christian UU (even though my husband and daughter do not). I find it strange though that a group found it necessary to separate from the UU denomination in order to feel accepted in their Christian beliefs. Do you think that UUism is not tolerant enough of Christianity? -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 10:39 PMMy church is not intolerant of christianity. Some UU's may be put off by that, but they can go practice at another of the area UU churches that have some other focus if they wish. I guess I'm somewhat spoiled by having options instead of living somewhere where my tiny church is the only liberal island around.
I'm sorry if I gave UU christians in this tribe the idea that I was intolerant of thier beliefs or was trying to "sweep our christian heritage under the rug". I think the Unitarian Universalist church is more in line with Jesus' life and teachings than most others. I was more discussing terminology, not practice. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, April 25, 2005 - 11:30 PMDouglas - I think you just brought up a topic that many of us who come to find the Unitarian Universalist church in our adult life, rather than be born into it, struggle with. I know that I went through a period of rejection of all religion before I found my UU church. Now I am trying to discern where the teachings of Christianity fit into my theology because that is where I came from. It's been nice to see this discussion unfold. So in a way, thanks. I don't believe anyone took your idea to be negative. It just got us thinking, and thinking is good. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 3:07 AMHi Everyone!
I am new to the board but not new to UUism. I have been a UU for 11 years and a teacher of religious education of UUism for 8 of those 11 years (and still know nothing!) LOL. I have been reading the posts here and I must say it is refreshing to see Christianity not being bashed in the manner it so often is amongst the discussions I have experienced with fellow UU's. We are indeed supposed to respect the practices and beliefs of all religions regardless of how much they may differ to our own.
Are we considered a Christian denomination, no. In order to be Christian we must prescibe to the teachings of Christianity in its entirety regarding the bible as sacred scripture. Can we as individuals practice or hold in belief aspects of Christianity? yes...and many of us do.
I think alot of confusion about Christianity comes from the modern beliefs in Christianity as opposed to the biblical foundation. How can you possibly be Christian if you are pro-choice or support Gay and Lesbian rights? Doesn't the bible say that you can't? Well that all depends on whether Jesus said you can or can't ( and or God unless you support the trinity and..well I won't get into that) and that depends on your interpretation and whether the words came from his mouth or some writer 2000 years ago.
The bottom line of what I am saying is this... Can we as UU's say we are Christian? Only if we hold true the new testament as our one and only source of belief. Which is probably unlikely because we wouldn't be here in the first place. ( I know someone is going to counter me on this and I am prepared) LOL! Can we, as Unitarians celebrate and believe in aspects of Christianity. Yes, of course but we cannot call ourselves Christians in true spirit anymore than my pro-choice Roman Catholic friends who never go to church can call themselves Roman Catholics.
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Re: Why Liberals Should Read The Bible
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 4:15 AMThis article on BeliefNet.Com, by John Buehrens (past Pres. of the UUA) has several good reasons why
"Today many otherwise well-informed, intelligent people--religious liberals, seekers after wisdom and justice, even skeptics and the news media--often speak as though the Bible says and means only what fundamentalists say it says and means. [snip] ...it simply means that it ends up only in the hands and on the lips of others--often reactionary others--where it can and will be used against you"
www.beliefnet.com/story/132...272_1.html
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 3:50 PMAnne Marie... I mean no disrespect, but your post belies an incredible amount of ignorance and arrogance in its statements about not only what UU's can or cannot be, but what Christians are and aren't. Is someone who identifies as Jewish only so if they keep the sabbath, eat kosher, and follow all orthodox doctrines of that faith? What if an identified Muslim doesn't always pray five times a day?
Myself, I am a Unitarian Universalist... I am also a Christian, in that I believe that the message of hope, love, and faith that Jesus brought, is the salvation of humanity, that Jesus himself was one of the greatest examples of how to be a human being. Do I believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the absolvement of sins through his death? No. Do I believe that the Bible is sacred scripture? You bet, and so is the Koran, the Torah, the Baghavad Gita, and many other scriptures of various source.
I won't go on listing the various aspects of my faith, as it is a long and convoluted one. But it is nonetheless *my* faith.
I want to address a couple of your statements in particular though...
"How can you possibly be Christian if you are pro-choice or support Gay and Lesbian rights?"
How could Jesus *possibly* have sat down to dinner with tax collectors and prostitutes? Is it not inherently Christian(or christ-like) to be radical? By the way, I'm pro-choice, and my mother is a lesbian (and a UU minister). And again, I'm a UU Christian.
"Can we as UU's say we are Christian? Only if we hold true the new testament as our one and only source of belief."
Didja forget about the Old Testament? The Dead Sea Scrolls? The Nag Hammadi Library? Oh, and quite a lot of Unitarian Universalists identify as Christian, as evidenced by the existence of the Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship (started in 1945, and still going strong www.uuchristian.org/ )
"...we cannot call ourselves Christians in true spirit anymore than my pro-choice Roman Catholic friends who never go to church can call themselves Roman Catholics."
One of our deepest held principles as UU's is the Free and Responsible Search For Truth and Meaning. This is not only a very individual search for everyone, but one that is not defined by yours or even our religious leaders' beliefs or perspectives... I'm sure your pro-choice friends, if they have chosen to identify as Roman Catholic, would not appreciate you negating that identity.
Peace be with you,
-Drew -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 8:03 PMHi Drew!
Thanks for your comments and I take no offense to your feelings. First, Iwant to make clear that I mean no disrespect and certainly do not want to come across as arrogant. In responding to your post..
Yes..it is true UU's can be whoever they choose to be as well as believe in what they wish but the same does not hold true in the eyes of other faiths.
First let me comment on being Jewish. This term is not only used for a particular faith but also for ethnicity and heritage. Also...In Judaism one can pursue Unitarian Universalism doctrine as long as they are not of an Orthodox sect. I didn't make this up,this is what the religion states. There are several religions where this holds true. Amongst the ones that do not allow their brethren connection with us are the Muslims, the Jehovahs, the Mormons, Christian Fundamentalists and Catholics.
In Muslim, again..Muslim doctrine states pray 5 times a day period. On the same note, Roman Catholicsm states that your beliefs are laid out by the pope..period. People can and do walk around all the time saying they are Catholic and live and believe otherwise. They are not truly respecting the religion and forgive me if I hold UU's to a higher standard. Technically Drew, you may call yourself anything you like but if you are going to be honest with yourself then you can't go and change the core belief systems by justifying what you believe Roman Catholiscm should be is or what you believe Christianity should be. It is what it is. We as UU's will absolutely accept your belief system (I agree with your personal beliefs in entirety) but the definition of Christianity as well as the organizations that set forth the criteria on Christianity would not accept our definition.
Please understand that I am referring only to the definition of Christianity and the core belief system to which it is classified. I am going to refer you to the web site Christianity.com. Look under 'essentials of Christianity' and read the guidelines for being a Christian. If you can make Unitarians fit all the required categories I will humbly accept my error in judgement. But because I have done a temendous amount of research I am also aware of a lesser known belief system of the Unitarian universalists which you will find on UUA.org. (go to..about us<unitarian universalism<and about the bible.) It clearly states that UU"s (not some of us but UU's on a whole) regard the bible as essentially fable for the most part. This is the reason why we have not been accepted as a Christian denominations and not listed as such. Well, that and we allow members of atheistic and other belief systems.
Incidentally..I want you to read that line again..note how it says definitively that the bible is fictional (since when did we become the universal truth on that subject?). I did write UUA.org and ask them to please eliminate that sentence and or restate it to see that We believe...
Now..if UU's change their doctrine to state that the bible is the one and only source of truth and/or the Christian council decides that we fall under their guidelines then I will happily accept the fact that we can be Christian and UU. Until that time, there is a clear and distinct contradiction in terms. You can interrept the bible any way you like and you don't have to believe in the trinity (many Christian faiths don't) but ideally, if you are going to throw around the term and state you are Christian you should at least believe in what is currently laid out as definition. Also...I never stated that you can't be Christian and pro-choice or support gay rights. What I said was that you can't be Roman Catholic and support these things. Yes...my friends are always offended when I say it but I always tell them to ask their priest. If they can find one who disagrees with me then I'll back down. And... Unitarians started out as a Christian organization but no longer are acknowledged in this manner.
I will end off with this...Free and Responsible Search For Truth and Meaning starts with us Drew. We have to be honest with ourselves. Chrsitianity is a term. I didn't make the definition and neither did you but there is a definiton and no matter how hard you try you can't change it anymore than you can change the defintion of the word CAT to suit your views on what a cat is. Why not just say that you are a UU who believes and lives by Christian principles?
Peace be with you! -
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 9:07 PMIt seems we must agree to disagree on this... I think you are very bound by the belief that religious identity must follow guidelines laid down by the church of that religion... while some people find more comfort in this, as it provides a structure that is easy to follow, and a comfortable definition of spiritual identity. But not everyone fits this... early Christians had no church to define their faith, yet it did not make them any less Christian. So, yes, these are all terms, but just as the term "cat" encompasses all the variations of breed, size, and temperment, so too do terms of spiritual identity encompass many variations on a central concept, despite the wish of some to restrict them to only their own definition(hell, the Nicene Creed basically did what you are telling me I can't do, by re-defining the individualist tradition of Gnostic Christianity into the standardized definition you hold to be the only definition of Christianity). And you can read my previous posts in this thread(and the history on the UUA site) about the liberal Christian roots of Unitarian Universalism. So, to me, the concept that a short 44 years after the fusion of two liberal christian denominations into a pluralist, accepting congregation, that we cannot claim that same heritage, is pretty ridiculous.
Peace be with you,
-Drew -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 10:58 PMHi Drew,
I can respect what you say. You are absolutely correct about the Nicene creed but then again before my ancetsors Roman cathiolism was Paganism and stretch as I may, I can't make a claim to being a former Pagan. In the end it really doesn't matter what we call ourselves does it now? I follow the guidlines out of what I perceive to be respect for other religions (and this is not to say that you do not respect other religions, clearly you do) its more to say...I don't agree with you so I will call myself by another name. I don't want us defining Christianity any more than I want them defining us but hey...thats just me.
I have a humorous analagy. From birth I was always told I was Italian. So when I finally made my pilgrammage to Italy I excitedly told the cab driver that I was an Italian as well. He laughed at me and said " Senorina you are not Italian, you are an Italo-Americana." Which essentially means that I am an Italian of American Heritage. Quite frankly I was pissed. Afterall, who was this cab driver to tell me I was not an Italian. I went home and tried desperately (help I need spell check!) to justify why I was just as much Italian as him but I fell short. By definition, by lifestyle, by comprehension of Italian culture and life and even spirituality, I was an American. My roots belong to Italy but not me.
Claim our heritage, support it, respect it, acknowledge and learn from it in all forms but recognize it is just that...our heritage.
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, May 9, 2005 - 5:24 AMOops sorry..I need spell check and an editor. I meant American of Italian heritage NOT Italian of American heritage.
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Mon, May 9, 2005 - 10:48 PMAnne Marie,
You wrote:
>but the definition of Christianity as well as the organizations >that set forth the criteria on Christianity would not accept >our definition.
>Please understand that I am referring only to the definition >of Christianity and the core belief system to which it is >classified. I am going to refer you to the web site >Christianity.com. Look under 'essentials of Christianity' and >read the guidelines for being a Christian
I took a look at the site that you pointed out. Interesting that because one website puts out a very specific definition of Christianity, that you take that definition as the God's truth.
I studied at a Christian seminary and I found many people and even whole denominations who do not believe in the inerrancy of the bible, or that human beings are born in sin and can only be freed from that sin by a belief in Jesus Christ.
I have no problem with people believing those ideas. But to say that those beliefs are required in order to be called a Christian is pretty dogmatic. This website lists one definition, and a pretty narrow one at that.
One of my biggest issues with the label of Christian, or Christianity in the modern world is that is has been so narrowly defined theologically, that the real root of the world, someone who follows the teachings of Jesus, has been lost.
If you were really to study the gospels and see what has been written about those teachings, there is little to nothing that synchs up with what this website says. But if you read Paul, and those who write later, who is only an interpreter of the teachings of Jesus, then you will find these concepts.
There are many varieties of Christianity. They don't all agree on what it means to be Christian, or what is required to be a Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are any less Christian than someone who believes differently.' -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 3:07 AM>One of my biggest issues with the label of Christian, or Christianity in the modern world is that is has been so narrowly defined<
I've made the arguement in several places that this happened (in part) because the loudest voices proclaiming "The Gospel" are the fundementalists. Say something loud and often enough & it starts to become "true." So many people think it is the only way to be Christian. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 3:39 AMHi Br,
You are so right in what you say. But isn't there something that draws the line between where the definition begins and ends. if there isn't then why wouldn't everyone be considered a Christian? Drew's questions was..Who decides? And..he's got a point on principle but I am going to ask of all of you "who decides what a UU is?" Should we as members decide, the UUA board decide or should other religions decide?
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 8:04 AMI am very much in agreement with your post (and a previous one) where you point out that we have allowed fundamentalists to interpret and define Christianity, the Bible, and [far too often] what is "moral or ethical behavior." Why should the identification of 'moral values' be solely to the issues of gay marriage, etc. and not to corporate greed? Why can't we point out the very good parts of Christianity and Jesus' teaching? It seems to me that we might have more effect, especially in the 'red states,' if we focused some of our talking in terms of what is moral behavior, but NOT in the fundamentalist definition of morality and Christianity. We should not let that extremist version of religion define us!
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 3:31 AMHi Robyn,
I am aware that many christians do not believe in original sin and I don't recall the website mentioning that as an essential. I would like you to elaborate about your comment referring to the belief in inerrancy of the bible. Are you referring to scripture and passages or do these denominations disregard it in its entirety.
I am also arware that Christian denominations argue about scriptures, social and polictical issues, idolatry, truths..and so on but my belief has always been that they have key points to unite them. Is what I am saying dogmatic. Sure..but aren't Chrsitian denominations dogmatic in nature of their existence?
If there are recognized Christian denominations (keyword recognized because this is what I am basing my thoughts on) that are in line with our creed in regards to nature and the universe then I will recant humbly.
what I am trying to ask of you and anyone who reads my post is to try to shed your UU skin and step outside of what we believe and view it from the perspective of a non UU. I know this is very difficult do because once you have experienced UUism you never quite look at things the same way, that and you question everything. But to someone who does prescribe to chrsitianity or who is a non UU there are parameters of classification (I never said they were right) but there are and to profess to something without falling into the criteria is misleading and can and is sometimes taken with offense by those who precribe to that criteria. The latter is my concern in this whole issue.
We have Zen Buddhists UU's and pantheonistic (did I spell that right) UU's and we have Pagan and Wiccan UU's but there are some denominations we don't have. We don't have Mormon UU's, Jehovah Witness UU's, Fundamentalists Christian UU's, Muslim UU's so on. The reason is that there is just no alignment. The alignment comes fom the professed beleifs and guidelines prescribed from those religions. We may not live by the rules but we can't expect everyone else to do as such. Which incidentally we UU's do have some parameters (afterall I have yet to see any UU KKK rallies, UU Pro Life forums or UU pedophile chapters) Yet we did say we accept all who enter are doors who,but this is the key part of the sentence, who are in alignment with our bond of union.
I am being honest in saying that I can't tell a Ku Klux Klan member that they are going to be comfortable in Uuism anymore than i can tell a Christian who prescribes to a belief in the bible as God's word and that jesus was the son of God the same. The latetr is what i always believed the definition to be and if I am correct then you and Drew are arguing with me on principle as opposed to my stance based on theologicla perspectives.
Robyn you know as well as I do that if we went over to the Christian boards and posted our take on Christianity either we would be laughed off or burned at the stake. Why? because we don't agree on scriptures? No because we don't regard Jesus as the son of God. They are going to be offended. I don't know any other way to put it. My question is that do we have the right to redefine chrsitianity? Maybe within our own religion but I just don't think we do in regards to everyone else.
I'll end off with a quote from a fundamentalist friend who told me this when I first met her and she asked about Chrsitianity and Uuism (I used to believe as you and Drew do till I met her) She said, " There you guys (UU"s) go again making up the rules as you go along, now YOU are going to tell US what Christianity is?" there was a lot of (LOL)s after her comment maybe even a (ROTFL) as well.
You see....she as well as many others I know don't have a problem with us believing as we wish, they have a problem with taking a term and redefining it.
The question I am grappling with here is "Why are some UU's using the term Christianity to define beliefs like Drews and mine. What is it in the term that evokes so much passion that we need it to define us that and how do we as UU's relate to the term without redeifing it in its entirety? -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 17, 2005 - 7:46 PMI think you are right in saying that fundamentalist Christians, in which I was raised, have a very narrow, inerrant view of the scripture (which they all disagree on, by the way). HOWEVER, in my life I have met many Christians of the more moderate bent, Methodists, Episcopalians, and others, who do not havethat strict view of Christianity and scripture that you mention. I see Christianity as a continuum with many fundamentalists at one end, many Christians in the middle, and 'perhaps' me at the other end.
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 4:32 AMI'm so sorry I forgot one last thing...
Robyn said:
real root of the word [christianity], someone who follows the teachings of Jesus, has been lost.
My reply:
So very true but I always thought that this was the definition for Unitarian Universalism not Chrsitianity. This is why I left the world of Christianity to be here in Unitarian Universalism. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 4:15 AMhi Everyone,
I want to tell you all that I spoke to quite a number of people of varying faiths in reference to your replies and my own feelings and I have come to relaize that their is no true definition of Christianity. In this, I realize how I must have offended some of you and apoligize as well as concede my previous held belief. I was always taught in definitive terms by both Chrsitians and Unitarians and that is why I previously believed the way I did. When i rephrased the question, I realized the truth. I don't howver, regret speaking up because if I did not, I would not have been enlightened. Thanks! -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 7:26 PM>I was always taught in definitive terms by both Chrsitians and Unitarians<
Part of the problem is that every denomination has a vested interest to proclaim their "Good News" as best version over everyone else. Hopefully a liberal (as opposed to a literal) approach to faith can help capture the soul of the message and leave the dogma by the side of the road.
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 5:02 AMAgreed Br!
But let us not impose this understanding as correct on others, rather understand it from which it was derived. I still hold belief in parameters however (and not because I need comfort...assume nothing with me), but I do so on my own accord. And where there exists no parameters existenially as well as theological (which I have now come to understand Chrsitianity as on both points) then no one can say with confidence what is and what isn't. I truly hope everyone understands what I am trying to say here. I am submitting an example of UU documention that will hopefully help. I would like everyone to read the last sentence and tell me if anything is wrong with it.
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 9:58 AMMy current favorite quote regarding the bible is secondhand from an article by John Buhrens (past Pres of the UUA) "The bible isn't literally true...just eternally true." As UU's we can get so hung up on the historical accuracy or inaccuracy that we fail to learn the lessons the book has to teach us. Like all great literature, it says something about being human in this world.
I think your last sentence is covered by the part of the UU Creed that reads:
The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:
[snip]*Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
*Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
*Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit. -
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Unsu...
Re: American Unitarian Conference
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 10:29 AMI couldn't have put it better Bro. Katana :)
And to Anne Marie, I'm glad the exchange we've had here has been fruitful in your spiritual growth, as it has been for me as well... I tend to debate faith fiercely(especially my own). I hope you didn't take that as hostility or anger... just "on fire for faith" if you will ;) -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 11:37 AMNever you mind Drew...Honey I have dealt with far fiercer opponents who have said alot worse. If you think Unitarians are scary try conversing with born agains and fundamentalists not to mention my Roman catholic family. BTW: Those of us with Italian heritage prefer the term passion to arrogance (LOL)
Oh and guys,...I didn't mean what we mean by the quote what I meant was do you think it is okay for us as UU's to state this last
sentence as a Universal truth for all (UU's and non-UU's)? -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 3:43 PMI can't even imagine conversing with them...doesn't that just mean listening to their side as they talk over you? ;)
Personally, I prefer explinations to be couched in positive terms. "We believe what study and experience compel us to believe in" not "We don't believe XYZ." What does it say about us if we can only say what we're not or what we don't believe?
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 8, 2005 - 8:59 PMI am sorry. I forgot one thing here. The UUChristians is an indepenedent affiliate of UUA. They are not UUA. My posts refer strictly to the UUA.
www.uuchristian.org
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sat, May 19, 2007 - 2:56 PMI found them by accident on the Net. I am pastor of a church that is unitarian and universalist, but not part of the UUA. We are thinking about joining them once we get more info from them. What about you? -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Sun, May 20, 2007 - 5:49 PMThe UUA can be helpful in a lot of organized things, especially if you're interested in social action activities. -
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Re: American Unitarian Conference
Fri, August 31, 2007 - 6:20 PMWhat is an American Unitarian?
This is a very perplexing question.
"What" may not be the proper question and but "who."
A Unitarian may be a person from any nation or race.
He or she is a person with great cares and concerns.
They are people who care about and strive for the good of man.
An American Unitarian is a person who believes there is one God.
They do not seek to place labels on the way to worship Him.
They do not seek to restrict how others may relate to Him.
A Unitarian is a person who seeks to live in harmony and peace.
They recognize all of humanity as family and kin.
They seek to love and serve in anyway they can.
An American Unitarian seeks to learn and grow in knowledge and wisdom.
They seek out the best instruction in all the world religions.
They seek to live out the unity and principles as best they can.
A Unitarian will accept no limiting doctrine or creed imposed on them.
They listen to the still small voice that they have within.
They follow the guidance of the Spirit wherever it may lead.
An American Unitarian has only two great principles to observe.
They will love and serve the one God.
They will love and serve their fellow man.
An American Unitarian is a very rare breed in the world today.
They do not seek to control, but to serve others in their journey.
They strive to be worthy to be called Children of the One.
With Love,
Rev Dorris
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